Curse

MagmaRed · Feb 27, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

I never do understand the people on this forum who oppose every idea, when its obvious from their posts that it doesnt pertain to them, so what does it matter to them? Who really cares, if you are so leet, that something might help those not so leet do the same things. It wont kill you.

I don't oppose every idea, just the ones I think are bad. I don't think I am "so leet" and this will help people who aren't. What I see this idea doing is making people worse at playing the game. People who are bad at the game, or only average will often find death mounting up, especially in HM. Giving them ways to remove the DP means the DP means nothing. If they can ignore DP they will start to ignore ways to prevent DP. When did staying alive as long as possible become "leet"? I'd prefer the people who want this to become part of the game learn how to not need DP removal, which would mean they are becoming a better player. DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths.

I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game.

Horus · Feb 27, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I don't oppose every idea, just the ones I think are bad. I don't think I am "so leet" and this will help people who aren't. What I see this idea doing is making people worse at playing the game. People who are bad at the game, or only average will often find death mounting up, especially in HM. Giving them ways to remove the DP means the DP means nothing. If they can ignore DP they will start to ignore ways to prevent DP. When did staying alive as long as possible become "leet"? I'd prefer the people who want this to become part of the game learn how to not need DP removal, which would mean they are becoming a better player. DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths.

I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game.

why does it make me a bad player if i want to remove DP from Olias who in 75% cases gets to 30%? oh no, i'm a bad player because my hero lures too much, and now if i want him to get rid of DP, i'll be even worse player... give me a break, removing DP from heroes has nothing to do with how good you are or not, i've done legendary guardian without using a single DP removal. But that's not the case.

Why should we play with heroes that have DP while having stacks of DP removers in inventory? there's no reason for that, simply let us use it on heroes trough their inventory tab. And tbh there are too many other things in game that help ppl do in game well and keep them bad, like consumables, pve skills etc.

seriously, bad argument just there.

zwei2stein · Feb 27, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

well, i'm seriously not interested in using up powerstone of courage just because my Olias as the only party member gets up to 60% DP. He tends to get there in 75% of runs, with him being at 60% he dies a lot, then other heroes are rezzing him instead of playing etc. etc.

[Protective Spirit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

Imo it really wouldnt hurt at all if we could use those candies on heroes. However it would help loads in some situations.

It would consume dev time as it is unprecedented functionality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

And seriously, if a hero gets to 60% DP it really doesn't say anything about me knowing how to play the game or not - and if you claim your heroes never get any DP then you're a liar or you're not playing HM at all.

It takes few mobs to redeem DP from one death with HM XP gains. If your hero dies more often that it can clear dp naturally, something is, indeed, wrong with your setup. Being able to use cons will not help you with that, it will only make it consume money.

If you still have problems, you can use party-wide XP scrolls, or party-wide DP removers (there are several), so there is no point in this functionality.

MagmaRed · Feb 27, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

why does it make me a bad player if i want to remove DP from Olias who in 75% cases gets to 30%? oh no, i'm a bad player because my hero lures too much, and now if i want him to get rid of DP, i'll be even worse player... give me a break, removing DP from heroes has nothing to do with how good you are or not, i've done legendary guardian without using a single DP removal. But that's not the case.

Why should we play with heroes that have DP while having stacks of DP removers in inventory? there's no reason for that, simply let us use it on heroes trough their inventory tab. And tbh there are too many other things in game that help ppl do in game well and keep them bad, like consumables, pve skills etc.

seriously, bad argument just there.

You are a bad player if a hero gains DP faster than it can be removed in HM where XP is much higher. If the build is bad, the hero will die often. If yuou flag poorly, the hero will die often. If you have the hero set wrong (Attack, Guard, Avoid) the hero will die often. If you have poor armor/weapon sets on a hero, it will die often.

Good players learn what was wrong, that made the hero die so frequently that DP became a problem. Then they fix that/those problem(s) and have fewer if any problems.

Yes, lots of things were added to assist the bad players. We don't need more added though. How many people have you seen asking for PvE skills to be removed? How many have asked for Consumables to be removed? How many have you seen asking for Summoning Stones to be removed? I wouldn't go so far as to say those should all be removed, but they certainly allow bad players to stay bad and still succeed.

Kattar · Feb 27, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

If you still have problems, you can use party-wide XP scrolls, or party-wide DP removers (there are several), so there is no point in this functionality.

Like these.

And let's try and keep it on topic, shall we?

MithranArkanere · Feb 27, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Well, I made a suggestion about DP management, suggesting some kind of items or potions to recover DP for heroes, henchmen and self without depending on event drops.

They added powerstones, so I considered my suggestion made.

It's not like I disagree with this, but it's true that not all items would be usable in heroes. Mostly DP ones would be fine.
Items with other kinds of Bonuses should be considered PvE-only, and so, not usable by heroes.

Sniper22 · Feb 27, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

We don't need to encourage the use of heroes even more.

No.

DragonRogue · Feb 27, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I don't oppose every idea, just the ones I think are bad. I don't think I am "so leet" and this will help people who aren't. What I see this idea doing is making people worse at playing the game. People who are bad at the game, or only average will often find death mounting up, especially in HM. Giving them ways to remove the DP means the DP means nothing. If they can ignore DP they will start to ignore ways to prevent DP. When did staying alive as long as possible become "leet"? I'd prefer the people who want this to become part of the game learn how to not need DP removal, which would mean they are becoming a better player. DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths.

I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game.

I understand your point here in challenging others to become better at a game. At least this is what I will assume you mean and I am going to put words in your mouth since you have done such a lousy job at saying this. However your point is weak and you still come off sounding arrogant and elitist. You continually refer to people who might need this as "bad players" instead of thinking maybe they are still learning to play the game better without such crutches. Everyone learns, to do anything, at their own pace and some may take longer than others to become proficient at it. Who are you to say that the OPs idea is a bad idea because you are better at this game than someone else? That you dont need any crutches is fine, some may. So many different items have been put into this game to aid people that I dont see how this would affect it anymore. If this helps them become less frustrated so they can play the game longer, and not give up, that they actually do learn to play without these items, then I say its a good idea.

By your own admission, "DP removal should be available to remove DP to allow a mission/quest to be completed when an unexpected DP arises. Good examples of times a DP removal would be good to use? HM elite zones like The Deep, Urgoz Warren, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, etc. The time it takes to do those is not something you want to lose for some unexpected deaths." Seems to me that the OPs idea pertains to this as well. Lets even add soloing HM Frost Maw and on the 4th level unexpected deaths arose, not because of being a bad player, but because key skills were interupted. How would the OPs idea not help here? Seems to me that the OPs idea could be used for so many different places and types of players, yet you jumped to think it would be only for "bad players".

So by making this statement "I'm just not wanting ways for bad players to remain bad and still do well in the game." you have only proved my point that you are an elitist snob, who quoted me trying to say otherwise and failed. So again I ask, how does this affect you? And what does it matter that someone might benefit from the OPs suggestion since it doesnt pertain to you? Why does this bother you so much?

Ultimately, what I gathered from the OPs suggestion is a way to use up the stacks of Holiday items that are acquired INSTEAD of being forced to go out and waste gold on powerstones to do the same thing. Reguardless on whether its for unexpected deaths OR bad H/H management.

zwei2stein · Feb 28, 2009, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

Ultimately, what I gathered from the OPs suggestion is a way to use up the stacks of Holiday items that are acquired INSTEAD of being forced to go out and waste gold on powerstones to do the same thing. Reguardless on whether its for unexpected deaths OR bad H/H management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

these.

I see affordable alternatives that come from events. And there is even collector item.

Also, powerstone not only removes DP, it also buffs party.

If you still really want something, i would humbly suggest this PvE-only skill:

"Selfless Revival"
Enchantment Spell 10e, 8s cast, 1s recharge.
Unlinked.
Target party member is ressurected with 50% life and 50% energy and is enchanted with Revival, transfering 1% of DP to caster each seccond. Ends if caster reaches maximum DP. This skill is easily interrupted.

Here, you can suffer DP instead of party member, and so you can use existing consumable to remove it.

Yawgmoth · Feb 28, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

We don't need to encourage the use of heroes even more.

No.

this!

and we already got plenty of options to remove DP from heroes, also some completely independant of events, I won't bother listing them all, use /wiki for teh win.

Hugh Manatee · Feb 28, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

The problem I've noticed with heroes and henchmen accumulating DP is at some point it reaches a "critical mass" where by that specific hero will be the run's "bitch". Like lets say I have vekk specced out with a good staff, runes ect, but he gets ganked before the healer AI can deal with it, or we come across a hard hitting boss, he goes down, you think 1 out of 8 while fighting HM ele bosses, you expect some losses, no biggiee right? Well, he gets back up. Then, next mob, they must sense he's got slightly lower HP, so they gank him, like golems will just lightning orb his ass or he gets dogpiled by melee or something, he goes down again his HP gets lower, he gets more susceptible to HM's heavy hitters, even manually proting him, and as the run goes I have to set him half a radar screen away so he doesn't drop dead instantly, taking him out of the fight totally till he gets in shape(I once had a bunch of heket run past me, past my WHOLE 6 other mid and back liners aaaaaaalll the way to vekk/olias i can't remember who the bitch was that run, but he was all by himself at the edge of the radar.... it was hilarious and sad...)

Everybody else will be at +10% but the run's "bitch" just stays at 60% the whole time. It'd be nice to not have to burn the expensive and valuable party wide buffers on 1 guy, especially if you have tons of the crap laying around is all.

The Little Viking · Mar 01, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

4 leaf clovers...(5% to 15%)
powerstone of courage....(10%)
honeycomb..(5%)
rainbow candycanes...(5%)

Tenebrae · Mar 01, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Woudnt be bad to display a msg to ask u wich party member u want to erase 15% DP. WCC is easier to get so you will have to use more of them to erase DP on party members , seems fine to me
SIGNED

PD:RCC affects entire party , it should give 2 damn sweet points thou

Owik Gall · Mar 01, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

There is a different candy and other consumables that gives the WHOLE party 5% morale. Although it's signifigantly a tad than the single use of the candy. However the point here is there is no need to pass the candy to a hero when there is another consumable that gives morale to your team. This is for the purpose of helping out your henchies and heroes at least a little bit. If everyone think that sucks, ask for the morale boost of the party-wide consumables be increased. That sounds a lot simple than this idea, especially.

/not signed.

Mangione · Mar 01, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

/signed

I love this idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Why not just being able to open their panels and drop the items in their portraits?

I would love this feature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

But honestly, if u wish to use sweets to remove dp on hero's, it should be on an individual basis, and sweets used to remove dp from heros and henchmen should not count toward your title. It would be the same as if you were traveling with a party of real people and handing out your sweets for each of them to use because they forgot their own or something.

With this limitation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Everybody else will be at +10% but the run's "bitch" just stays at 60% the whole time. It'd be nice to not have to burn the expensive and valuable party wide buffers on 1 guy, especially if you have tons of the crap laying around is all.

Your post made me laugh, really funny

Indeed you have really a good point on that.

Sweet Mystery · Mar 02, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Just kill more... the XP will help remove the DP... if get lots of party DP then Powerstone.... think trying to implement playerbased DP removers for heros a waste of time....

daze · Mar 03, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Sure it is a cool idea and i would support it. Im not dying for it though. Usually i just pop a clover or if i don't want to do that, i just pop an exp scroll.
Next time you have more DP on your heroes than you can handle, just pop an experience scroll.

/meh

Vilaptca · Mar 03, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

There really do need to be some downsides to using heroes. This is still a multiplayer game.

/notsigned